You just released the first single to your new album The Formula with “Go All Out”. What do you think of the response to “Go All Out”?
Man, that is beyond phenomenal. That’s beyond…I don’t even know how to explain that. I’m flabbergasted. I’ve been doing this for so long and it’s like a dream, man. It’s like sometimes I don’t know if I’m here and if I’ll wake up. I’ve been doing this for so long without conforming to what people want me to do and I’ve been able to survive longer than people who did those things. Who knew it could really pay off.
Has it ever been hard not changing to follow trends?
Yeah, it’s hard. Every five minutes and everywhere you turn, somebody is telling you what’s in and what you have to do to be in and what’s out and what’s not hot no more and what’s old. Every time you turn around, you hear that shit. You’re like, ‘Damn! The CD just came out!’ I remember when cassettes were out. A lot of people don’t want to say that because they don’t want to show their age. I’ll say it. Now with CD’s and CD players and CD radios, it’s kind of like having a TV with rabbit ears. It’s almost like getting to the point where it’s so obsolete that it’s almost embarrassing.
Have you been able to maintain that “Go All Out” attitude as of late?
I think I have been able to maintain that attitude as far as going all out because of the position I’m in and the people that I work with and just how I live my life. I feel like with going all out, that’s all you can do in this game. And to be straight honest with you, 9th Wonder is a phenomenal producer. I say “phenomenal” because he has a different way of working with everybody. I look at that and me and 9th do have a certain chemistry because I work a certain way too, but 9th and me together, we just work very well with the way that we talk to each other. I’ll spit something and I won’t even have to ask 9th how is it. If I look at 9th and I don’t get a certain type of eye, I’m going again. And if I don’t get it then, I’m going again. A lot of times it’s because I’m in a mindframe where I’ll hit it because I’m afraid not to hit it.
Do you think that’s because you challenge yourself and can accept constructive criticism that has allowed you to have such a long career?
Yeah. One of the key quotes I use is that people aren’t tired of Buckshot because they haven’t gotten enough of Buckshot. I think that plays with my position. I was chosen to be this person in this position. You’re not tired of me because you haven’t gotten enough of me. I haven’t hit platinum. I created my own image because I had no choice. I had no option. I knew no one could do it like I wanted it to be done. And then after ’95, everyone started following and getting the own label. Bad Boy was out but Bad Boy was on MCA. They weren’t Duck Down. Very few people were Duck Down. I didn’t have MCA or Universal. I wasn’t Death Row. I didn’t have Interscope. A lot of people look past that but that is the reason that I’m still here.
You also built your career on a solid foundation of consistent music. In “Go All Out” you said, “Even when your tune is hot/It soon stops when your rumors is not.” How important is that integrity to you and the fact that you have a career that doesn’t rely on smoke and mirrors?
It’s cool. At the end of the day, you do what you do because you say that you’re not going to conform to what society wants. I think the way you love to do what you do because the talent in you tells you that you’re not going to conform to society and your mindframe is not meant to be a robot, so you were going to get into journalism in the new technology because it allows you to be yourself through other people and vice versa. I think it’s the same for myself.
There are a lot of rappers out here who are “better than me” in a lot of things. We all are like basketball players. Buckshot has a certain style of basketball. Now Lil’ Wayne, who I’m cool with in the sense that that’s one of my favorite MC’s out right now, and Lil’ Wayne gave me respect and a tribute that showed me, ‘Wow. Not only do I fucks with Lil’ Wayne not ‘cause he fucks with Buckshot, but damn, I fuck with Lil’ Wayne because he is a dude who reminds me so much of Buckshot.’ I don’t know a lot about him personally to speak on his attitude, but I know his grind mode and his mindframe is that he’s a little nigga that a lot of people underestimate. People underestimate his voice and his flow. I think he’s showed that to the public that he’s not one of the rappers out because he just happens to be around. He’s paid dues.
And it takes a lot of skills to be metaphorical like he is. I can do that. I can take that approach and go a whole bunch of places metaphorically, but that’s just not the way I choose to present Buckshot. Some people are like that. You never waste a line. You only got one line to speak. And in that one line, you can either play or you can put down something real. And I don’t consider metaphors playing, but I don’t know what I would call it. Metaphors are more like knifecuts and what I spit is more like gun blasts.
What do you think goes into a good metaphor?
“I get more drawers than a furniture store.” That’s shit that the average person could say, “Hmm, I do get more than that.” It’s common stuff that you can do. It’s all fun and games. You could go and get a book on metaphors and start putting them in rhymes and that’s cool. But for me, I just say to myself, “The fans that like the so-called ‘backpack’ metaphors or the way I approach my stuff, it’s who I’m cool with and I’m satisfied with that.’ I’m good with the White kids and the Asian kids and the Black kids and the African kids and the Chinese kids and the France kids that are at my show and they’re not so zoned-out on a one-line metaphor that has nothing to do with the impact of their lives or why they’re even in America. I’m going to do that rap. The metaphor dons like the Lil’ Wayne’s and the Cassidy’s, let them spit the metaphors that are going to entertain you. I’m going to be the 2Pac rapper. There’s a war going on out here and I have to educate people in every form and fashion.
You also go back with 2Pac. What kind of an impact did he have on you as an MC?
A very, very, very, very big impact. I lived with 2Pac. I didn’t just hang with him. I didn’t just get up with him in the studio. I woke up in the morning and made turkey bacon and pancakes with 2Pac. It’s a whole other energy when it comes to me and ‘Pac. I was so drunk one night I fell asleep on his bed and he didn’t even spaz out. He was like, ‘Fuck it.’ That was a family member of mine. His mother and my brother cooked food for the whole family at times. It was different. I lived with him and that’s the best way that I could put the impact that he had on me as a person and as an MC.
I also became more conscious of going, ‘You know what? This microphone is a speaker. This microphone is a speaker, literally, of getting to the crowd. Now what do I want to do with that?’ When I heard 2Pac spitting, I got impacted by that. When I hear Lil’ Wayne and Cassidy spitting, I get impacted, but it’s a different kind of impact. So which impact do I personally want to go with? At the end of the day, where would my side be? I would be more on the 2Pac side because I know that every line is detrimental. All we got is a little bit of time.
Do you think there will ever be another MC to have the impact that 2Pac did?
I don’t know. I know there will never be a person that will impact me the way 2Pac did. But as far as an MC that could impact me, I don’t know.
In “Go All Out”, you also said, “No more controversy, used to be front page, now he’s in the back thirsty.” What did you mean by that?
(laughs) It’s just funny that you pick out certain lines. Charlie Murphy is another person that does that to me. There’s a lot of dudes in the back. That’s not a positive position. I don’t look at that like it’s my position. Shit, I’m the Dot Com Don, baby! I’m far from fucked up. I’ve been doing the WWW Dot Com since 1995. If you look at my history and if you look at my logo, I’ve always had the Dot Com over my logo, always. Right next to Duck Down Records it was always “DuckDown.com”.
That was our only way of surviving. We were competing against MCA Records and Tommy Boy Records and so many record companies like Columbia. The list could go on. There was RCA Records. The list could go on and on about all of these record companies that used to be the shit and they used to be on the front page and now they’re done. They were so egotistical that you couldn’t touch them and now they’re in the back thirsty. That’s for those MC’s and those record labels. I never made front page. Never in my career have I ever got the front cover of a magazine, ever.
How do you stay ahead of the curve?
I’ll be honest with you. I’ll be straight up and down honest with you – I could not do this without my team. My team is like a bunch of scientists. It’s the team that made Buckshot who he is, like Dru Ha, No Ha, Shucky Ducky and all the street team kids. There’s Mike Moves and Movement Marketing. There’s Todd. These are all people that you wouldn’t recognize and you wouldn’t know, but these are the people that really helped Duck Down and put Duck Down in the position that we are in now. I got a lot of geek squad niggas. I’m the first one to say, “Anybody that has something to say, say it to me and I’ll take it from there.” Other than that, no doubt, I work with people that are off the chain with it. They don’t play with it. So when you add that to Buckshot the rapper, you have a ticking timebomb because now you have the street credibility of the dudes who were there where it started from and where it came from and then you have these entrepreneurs who are taking this shit to another level.
Is Duck Down focusing more of its energy online now than ever before?
Of course we are. Of course we are. What? Are you kidding me? Do you know how much energy we’re focusing on the Dot Com world right now? Your site has so many hits and more people have iPods and laptops. Even the desktop is obsolete for some people because they’re coming out with Mac Air and so much other stuff that’s being able to hold the files and everything else. It’s crazy.
It’s a way where no one can have any excuses anymore. Anyone who’s laying back and saying they can’t do it, they’re finishing themselves. The Dot Com is like a mega, mega, mega store. The Dot Com world allows everybody to get on right now and in a minute, that’s going to change. And when I say everyone can get on, I mean everybody can feel free to get on. Think about it, the word “PC” – “personal control” or “personal computer”. It’s putting you back in a position where you don’t have to listen to FM radio to know what’s hot anymore.
A lot of people aren’t on the internet but that’s not their fault. If you’re saying you’re not going on the internet yet, nigga, you’re out of date. You’re finished. Where are you at? Do you still get in your car and feel like you have no choice to listen to anything but the FM radio because it’s free? Well, stop being lazy and get online and watch what happens. Your whole world is going to open up.
As President of Duck Down, how much do you weigh internet buzz when looking for new artists?
Our process has never changed. Our process is never changing. You can’t really put a formula on anything that we do. I do know that one thing that never changes is talent and foresight. Hey, look at my man Torae. He works with Marco Polo. Now Torae is a person that has been doing this hip-hop shit since he was a kid. Me and Torae both grew up in the same neighborhood. He was just a little younger than me. He was the little homie. And that’s my dude. But Torae is somebody who’s been trying to do this hip-hop shit, you feel me? And I support Torae in doing it and now I’m about to work with him and put this record out because a person like that, who’s grinding and trying, he’s not waiting for nobody to put him on. He’s saying, “I’m going to get on on my own.”
That’s the type of people Buckshot works with and that’s the type of people that we sign. I look at the people that are making moves. This is no disrespect to the person who got a hot song and is going, “Buckshot, the reason why I’m not on is because nobody knows about my hot song.” No disrespect to that dude, but there’s another dude out there that’s busting his ass, getting shows, spending gas money to do shows and paying dues to get on, that’s the nigga that I’m going to fuck with, not the nigga that sits in his house all day and he’s just sitting around. Even if you spit hot shit and you got a job and you’re trying your best to get out there, I’m going to see that. I’m going to see that this dude is spitting hot shit and showing and proving. You have to be doing something to get Duck Down’s attention because we independent.
Where do you see Duck Down going in the future?
I call myself Mr. Kramden. Mr. Kramden drives for the Gotham Bus Company in the Honeymooners. The Honeymooners is my favorite television show of all-time. If you ask me what my favorite television show of all time is, it’s The Honeymooners. Mr. Kramden was on there and I see myself as him. I want to be the guy that helps out as much people as I can. I don’t want to own everything but I want to be a part of everything because when you’re a part of everything, you can have an influence on everything and you can have an impact.
We signed Kidz in the Hall and we’re working on a KRS-One project. We got the Heltah Skeltah project and a Buckshot and 9th Wonder project. We got Special Teamz and I’m working with Diamond D. I’m looking forward to working with Ladybug Mecca from Digable Planets. There’s a lot of MC’s that need to get out there, man. I’m just happy to be the person that’s doing that. I’m a fan of a lot of people who got signed and it’s amazing for me. Buckshot signing KRS-One and Kidz in the Hall, it’s no pressure for me because if I didn’t know my math and if I didn’t know my work, I think I would feel pressure. But I really do know my math and I really do know how to run a store on my own.
How is your new album The Formula coming?
Everything is looking positive. I just shot a video just to get it going. It’s for “Go All Out”. And the next video I’m about to shoot is with Kweli. People can look at my track record with Kweli and they know that I’ve gone on the road with him. People know. Buckshot and Kweli, they go on tours together and we hang together. We’re both from Brooklyn. It’s such a nonchalant vibe of “that’s my dude.” Having him on the single was great. It was a blessing. It was time that we worked with each other. It’s showing the people of the commercial world that you can try to block out good talent, but it will always find a way to be seen and it shows those people that tried to diss us a long time ago to keep dissing Buckshot and Kweli. Don’t think that you can just put us in the backpack world and that we’re going to be all that. What you call “backpack” is what I call the battery of society. You see more of my fans out in the open than you see a lot of other hip-hop artists’ fans because they recognize that I bring more to the table than what I just spit on the mic. I bring a phenomenon. I’m not even dissing anybody. It’s just hard to speak the truth without it hurting.
Does the formula for working with 9th Wonder change with each session?
Nope. I’m amazed at people who do that and believe it or not, I’ll be honest with you. There were times when I didn’t have that mindframe, as far as keeping “The Formula”. I didn’t even have that mindframe. It changed. There were people who put me back on the road and told me not to change my formula. They told me to give them a certain type of formula that they wanted. When I knew that, I was able to go, “Okay.”
The cover is symbolic. It’s me saying, “You know what? I know the formula now and what to give the people. I’m more comfortable with the formula now.” There were times when there was Snoop and Pharell and everybody had more commercial shit and here I was working with Da Beatminerz and people like that and nobody really knew these dudes. I’m not really getting that recognition and everybody wants to call it “backpack”. But now that Buck didn’t change his formula, that cycle is coming back around.
Do your fans want to hear you get back with producers like Evil Dee?
I definitely think so because I never left them and I definitely think so because the people that I’ve worked with are protégés of Da Beatminerz. 9th Wonder is a child of Da Beatminerz and Kanye West is a child of Da Beatminerz. These are people that grew up listening to Black Moon and they listened to Black Moon’s production and they were influenced by a part of it. It’s not like I’m working with Timbaland, who’s one of my favorite producers. It’s not like I went from that extreme from Da Beatminerz to Timbaland. I went from Da Beatminerz to a 9th Wonder. There’s some producers that fuck with real loops and they do their own thing to it. That’s the hip-hop that a lot of people like. That doesn’t mean that the other shit shouldn’t exist, it just means that they don’t want the brand of hip-hop that they like to die.
Little Brother parted ways with 9th Wonder because they said he wasn’t bringing them what they wanted. Have you ever had that problem with 9th?
No and I’m going to tell you why. Little Brother is my dudes. Phonte is my dude. Both of them. All of them are like that. They’re my dudes. Kaze’s my dude. Everybody’s my dude. When I say this, they have to understand that there’s a respect thing because I’m putting myself out there saying that I’ve been there too. I remember when Da Beatminerz couldn’t give me what I wanted to get.
Unfortunately that’s the rapper side of wanting to go to the next level thinking the producer isn’t giving us what we want. We don’t recognize that we just have to work harder at that producer or at that situation. We may have to put in 40 more songs. And I think that I found my way when I got back with 9th. I think that’s one of the reasons why I always have fun with 9th because whatever 9th brings to the table is 9th, no more, no less. I appreciate that he does that with me and the people like that.
I can’t explain that. We didn’t make any of that happen purposely. Whatever you like of us together, you genuinely like it because we didn’t do anything to try to sway you into liking it. We just said, ‘Let us do our best.’ We did our best and we showed each other. I’ll look at 9th and 9th will play me a track and if I’m not feeling it, he’ll know it because I won’t react a certain way because I’ll just keep bobbing my head. Then other times I’ll tell him, “Stop right there!” That’s when he knows that I’m feeling something. When I hear that, I know I got something!
Duck Down has recently done deals with The History Channel and ESPN for background music. How is that helping you expand the Duck Down name?
In a nutshell, it’s for the public to know, because a lot of the public probably doesn’t know. Let’s speak third party here. Buckshot and Dru Ha’s relationship is very unique and very special. What I love about us, I’m Black. I’m from the ‘hood. I’m a nigga that came from nothing but I’m very intelligent. I grew up with nothing material but I grew up with a lot of spirituality and socialness. Dru Ha is a White kid who grew up very rich. He didn’t grow up poor, but he always fucked with the struggle because he fucked with the talent. He didn’t like the conformity. So Dru Ha, this White kid, and Buckshot, this Black kid, they’re so cool that their chemistry allows it to pop off, like, ‘I got you’ and vice versa. And we can still relate to each other when it comes to making business moves. With the ESPN and History Channel deals, that’s where we combine our strengths. Buckshot is going to rap and do his thing. And I can run a record label even if I stopped rapping. That’s the difference with me and Dru Ha together. We’re both kicking it. The fans that we have are not there because we have a hot record. They’re fans of the franchise. We have to put product in this franchise so it can grow.
What’s it like hearing your song come on during a college basketball game?
That’s cool! I got a campaign running with K1X, that’s a clothing company run by Ron Artest. Ron is a cool dude. A lot of people don’t know the impact that hip-hop has on sports and a lot of people are starting to see that more and more, the impact that hip-hop is having on sports. So a person like Buckshot can be a liaison to that and that’s amazing to me. When the basketball players and other players hear about us, a lot of them aren’t afraid of it because the young ones that don’t know me, they find out the credibility of who I am through the older ones. And the young ones who don’t know me are like, ‘Fuck it, he’s got a record label and he’s popping right now.’
I think the most amazing thing really is The History Channel deal. We had a song that was on Gangland America and it’s talking to every gang member and every gang kid out there and I’m affected by that because that’s in my neighborhood everywhere too. I’m saying, “You know what, I’m showing you that you can do something with your life and there are other options. Stop thinking that everything other than a rapper or a producer is corny. Stop thinking that that guy with a walkie-talkie who is a PA is less important than the guy with the microphone. Without that guy, there would be no guy with the microphone.” These kids have to recognize that other positions are relevant to making the whole pie go around.
That’s a tough message to get across to kids.
I always try. Even speaking to the people now through you, I always try. Any chance I get to speak, I speak and that’s what I’m gonna do. I’m speaking to the kids any chance I get. The kids are our future. Those are the ones that are going to change the game for you and I. We need more people that do production and we need more managers. A lot of these rappers don’t have good managers. Why? Because these managers want to be rappers too. They’re not doing the best they could do for their artists. We’re running out of people because everybody wants to run to this one side. They all want to be on TV because they think that’s how they can get rich. They’re only doing it to be rich. They won’t live and die for this shit. Now I’m showing that if you’re rapping, you’re actually the brokest person.
I rap because that’s my foundation and that’s what I love to do, but at the end of the day, I got pictures when I was 16 and 17 years-old when I was an intern. I was an intern back then so I was always into the music. If it was up to me, I would have a home for Rakim and Big Daddy Kane and all of them whether it was hot and whether it sold 100,000 copies or whether it didn’t, just for them to have an opportunity to put out a record because they wanted to. That’s what the Dot Com allows. We don’t even go to record stores anymore. Why? Why would you? Why would you want to print up a CD? Why?
See, Duck Down, we’re the model for the future. A lot of people come to us. We have a marketing company called Vision. That’s part of Cornerstone, where Dru is at now. Dru’s one of the heads up there now. Without rambling too much, we have certain mindframes that separate us from other people. We come up with different concepts and work on changing the game. There’s really nobody that’s that innovative like me and Dru. Me and Dru came up with the whole online thing. Hypothetically, if you have a radio station, a lot of radio stations don’t play Buckshot. That’s fine, but I could tell you that an FM station can not reach Chile and I just came back from Chile. FM don’t go nowhere but the United States. My radio station online is going to go further than any radio antenna.
No doubt. How has your Black Moon partner 5 FT been doing?
5 is out. As far as Black Moon, that’s the next project that we’re working on. We gotta go in and we gotta put a blanket over our heads. We gotta go in. Da Beatminerz are working overtime, sweating on getting those beats together because I won’t accept nothing but that hot shit. So that’s where we’re at with the Black Moon project. And again, The Formula is an album that I think represents Buckshot in the new era and shows my revolution and my change. I’ve done these surges and reinvented myself. It’s good for the people to recognize that I didn’t change my formula even though I reinvented myself.
I’m still the Buckshot who did “Who Got Da Props” and “I Got You Open”. Of course I changed, but just the fact that you even want to listen to me now means a lot. Talent is talent. People call on me and Dru to come through and make business decisions for their label. A lot of people hire our marketing company to help them do certain things that they’re doing wrong in their business. People wonder how is a label like Duck Down, from New York and independent, able to make the impact that they are in the game when others have millions of dollars and artists that aren’t even making the impact that one or two of their artists are making. If we had more money, it would be a wrap, not because I would change. I would still look for the same talent. Talent is everything.
Are you surprised at how far Duck Down has gone since you and Dru reinvented the label with the Triple Threat project?
Yeah, because we were almost at lights out. We were one of the first labels when Koch came into existence. I remember telling people I was on Koch and they were like, ‘Koch?’ Now Koch is one of the biggest labels out there. Then Navarre came through. 9th Wonder came and saved our lives and Sean Price, if there were medals of honor, the Silver Star would go to Sean Price and 9th Wonder, who helped us out. And Navarre Distribution. Those are the three people who brought Duck Down back to where we could say, ‘Okay, not only are we back, but we’re about to unleash all of the stuff that we were going to unleash before that we never had the chance to like Edo G and Special Teamz.’
Edo G is an iconic figure in hip-hop. He’s not somebody who just had a hot record back in the days. He put Boston on the map and people don’t recognize that because he just had that one run, but he was. A lot of people didn’t know about Boston until Edo G and the Bulldogz.
So for me to have a piece of that is great, and then we have all of the new people like Marco Polo, who’s one of the illest producers coming out, period. Marco gave KRS-One and Heltah Skeltah and Sean Price and Buckshot and Torae fire. He’s giving us fire. Khrysis is another fire producer. Diamond D and Diggin’ in the Crates, people forget about all of these people, but as long as Buckshot, as long as that little nigga has a voice, all of that will really be going down. That’s my position in this game.
What’s it like having producers who grew up listening to your music able to give you the music you need today?
It’s crazy. It’s not like every record sounds the same and it’s perfect that I’m able to just be me and people like it. I don’t try to make something other than what it is. For Marco Polo to say, “I’m going to pick you up. I grew up on you.” And for him to give me a track that’s dope and for him to tell me what records he doesn’t like, I’ll go, ‘Well, okay. All right. I see what you’re saying.’ I’m not afraid of that exchange with any of my producers or any of the artists that I work with. A lot of rappers don’t do that. Did you ever see it on BET when they’re showing the making of a record and there’s seven dudes saying, “This is the one!” and then it’s not the one? I don’t want that. Putting that energy in it don’t make your record better. It is what it is.
What’s the next move for Buckshot?
The next move for me is just trying to put it all together. There’s so much stuff that Duck Down is doing. In the last few months we’ve been growing by the mega-minute. We got a new streaming system going on with the Dot Com thing where you’re going to be able to see Buckshot live anywhere in the country on our site, which a lot of people aren’t doing. I could be performing in Chile or in New York City. It’s like a boxing match. If you want to watch it, tune it. There’s no more editing and no more Photoshopped availability. You’re going to see it all uncut. You’re going to see the good and the bad. I’m not going to edit the fuck-up that I did even though I never do that. I got so much stuff that I’m doing and so much stuff that I’m working on. We have a 3-D program that we’re working with. It’s a 3-D interaction program that we’re working with. When you see how that changes the website images, that’s going to be bananas. I’m going to start working on that in about two weeks. And that’s pretty much it, man.
The roster for 2008 on Duck Down, let it be known, is officially Smif N Wessun, Black Moon, Heltah Skeltah, 9th Wonder, KRS-One, Kidz in the Hall, Special Teamz, DJ Revolution out in California and all of our affiliated artists like Torae, Ladybug from Digable, Marco Polo, Khrysis, Black Milk, Guilty and Sean Price as a solo artist himself and as a part of Heltah Skeltah, those are all of the artists that are coming out in 2008. Their projects are already on the runway so they’re definitely going to fly in the air.
What do you want to say to everybody?
Believe in yourself. I would like to say believe in yourself because only you can do what you want to do. Only you can make it happen the way you want to make it happen. Believe in yourself and get up off your ass and make it happen. And one of the last things I definitely want to tell everybody, and I mean everybody, and it’s kind of irrelevant to the people that are already doing this, but if you’re not on the Dot, then you’re going to rot. It’s like having a TV with the big fat juicy 20 foot back. It’s not around anymore. Get you a laptop. Stop spending $800 on a jacket. Take $400 and go buy a laptop. If you can’t afford a laptop, spend $200 and get yourself an iPod. But get on the Dot. Don’t be where you at right now. And that’s words from the Dot Com Don, Buckshot.
All I really want to do right now is open up doors and the Dot Com Don is my title. I’ve been doing the Dot Com thing so serious and our squad is so serious. I think there are other people that are like us. We’re not the only people, we’re just one of the only ones. There are people who got millions of dollars. Eventually everything will be done on the Dot. Why? Because it’s convenient. And we don’t manufacture CD’s no more because it costs too much money and it’s junk. I just want everybody to get that impact. When they see Buckshot, I want them to see the Dot Com Don, the nigga who does the Dot Com like nobody.