“For real though, I got the underground boss shit wrapped around my finger, not a rapper or a singer that’s quite as ill as I am,” Celph Titled proclaims on “Step Correctly” before threatening to “pop out your eyes and scramble them bitches next to the bacon in my frying pan.” Blending psychotic yet incredibly clever punchlines has kept Celph Titled as an underground favorite for years as a solo artist, member of the Demigodz and Army of the Pharaohs and as a frequent collaborator with Styles of Beyond and Linkin Park frontman Mike Shinoda.
As a result of his extreme lines about detaching heads with a wide range of weaponry, Celph Titled has never exactly found mainstream love, a fact he’s not only okay with but seems to relish. The Tampa product has instead carved his niche as being the go-to MC whenever anyone is looking to drop bodies and nod heads simultaneously.
While Celph Titled was dropping a steady stream of verses on other albums as well as appearing on Army of the Pharoahs albums, things weren’t looking great for the long-awaited debut LP of the Rubix Cuban. When Celph would partner with James DL of No Sleep Recordings, that would all change. Celph being the connoseuir of all things good in rap pitched an idea to record over vintage beats of a classic true-school producer. James DL had a link with Buckwild, a longtime favorite of Celph, and was able to bring the two together for the full-length LP Nineteen Ninety Now, Celph’s debut album that features nothing but authentic Buckwild beats from the mid-90s.
As the duo prepares to release their joint album, they checked in with HipHopGame to talk about the creative process, drop some gems like Big L’s writing process and promise to silence any doubters on October 26th.
How did you guys link up to even talk about doing an album like Nineteen Ninety Now, which features vintage Buckwild beats from the mid-‘90s?
Celph Titled: It was James DL, the owner of No Sleep Recordings, of Eddie Ill and DL fame. I don’t know if cats know about the mixtapes he used to make. He knew Buck and he knew me and I always wanted to holla at one of my favorite producers and see what kind of vintage stuff they had to do a project with a vintage sound and it was just a matter of if they were with it or not. James made a call and Buck was with it.
Buckwild: The rest is history!
How did you choose Buckwild for the project?
Celph Titled: That was a dream of mine. What happened around 2003, me and Apathy were going to Pete Rock’s crib. This is when he was signed to Atlantic. He was working with us and on the floor he had a bunch of SP-12 disks. Some of them were labeled “The Militia Remix” and other joints. He actually put a couple of them on CD for me. They were from the ‘90s and I didn’t approach him about the concept then, but it put a light bulb on in my head that if Pete’s got stuff lying around, I’m sure other producers who were making stuff back then would have stuff as well. I asked James to ask Buck if he had stuff and was down with it. Some producers wouldn’t be with it because they’d only want to do that new shit. It was good luck that he had them and he still had the equipment and everything worked like it was supposed to.
Buckwild, why didn’t you have any reservations about releasing your older beats?
Buckwild: I think a lot of times, music is timeless. Even when you listen to music, I’m an avid hip-hop fan and when they approached me to do something like this, going through the disks brought me back to memories from different times and I remembered what was going on when I made the beats. Every beat isn’t for everyone. You can have the hottest beat and 10 people will pass over it and one person will make a big record for it. Just from that time, you definitely want to let people hear what you might have stashed. I was really excited about it.
Celph Titled: And it’s a concept. It's not a misrepresentation. Everyone knows what’s up with it and the concept of it works out real good.
Buckwild: Like they say now, we made a movie! (laughs) We made a movie out of the concept.
Where does the saying go from “It’s a movie”? Is television series next?
Celph Titled: Fuck a movie. It’s a mini-series! Mini-series can go on for half a season!
Buckwild: To me, I think MCs have always made movies with their albums, like Biggie, Public Enemy and Rakim. Slick Rick is one of the greatest storytellers and you could see what he was saying. The music is like the soundtrack or the backdrop to what’s going on in the movie. A lot of dudes are using this movie thing and I think it’s misrepresented. They try to be so factual in rap now that it’s more a documentary and not so much a movie! They tell you when they’ve been in jail and they believe that rappers should be so real with what they do and they shouldn’t be artists. Artists are what sell. If you want to be real and talk about the time you did and how you pumped on the block, then you should have a documentary and you can do it like that.
Celph Titled: You got kids who want to be rappers and they might not even be inclined to be that kind of dude but they feel like they have to get a charge to back up what they’re doing! (laughs) It’s real crazy but it’s a whole ‘nother topic.
Buckwild: The college for a rapper is to catch a charge, to shoot somebody or to get shot. It’s crazy.
If your album is a movie, wouldn’t it have more violence than Scarface?
Celph Titled: Scarface didn’t have the bazookas or the tanks!
Buckwild: The theme, you know what I’m saying, Scarface had a theme to it, the same way. You could look at movies like The Color Purple. It doesn’t matter how violent it is. Comedy still has to have a certain vibe or a certain feel. That’s what makes this project. It’s not just something you throw together. It has a meaning to it. It’s not the typical “three beats from this guy, my street beats, my club beats, my shit for girls.” It’s not that.
I want bodies dropping every three seconds.
Celph Titled: (laughs) Yeah, man! I feel you, man. That’s how my movie would be. It would be like a Die Hard. It would be nothing but shooting up people and jokes and shit.
Buck, did you have to two-track anything in mixing?
Buckwild: No, we didn’t have to do that. If we had a two-inch, it would have been even realer. We had to go back with the same stuff. Tracking beats with a 1200 is a lot harder than it is nowadays where you have the programs that sync it up easily. I had to bring out the SP1200 and the 950 and the sync box also. A lot of people don’t know what that is but we had to use that to make sure everything locked up. There’s a lot of history there.
Did you record using 1994 or 2010 technology?
Buckwild: Recording was done with today’s technology. That’s kind of what it is. Let’s focus the production on that era and let’s focus all the lyricism with today and kind of blend it together. It’s not trying to masquerade as something that was made back then overall. I mean, the beats are. But that’s about it. It’s basically the molding of those two.
Celph Titled: We had to go back and Buck had to use the technology from back then. Other than that, it wouldn’t have sounded right.
Buckwild: You can try to replicate the beats on an MPC 3000 or 4000 or Reason or whatever but it’s not going to sound the same. To get that vintage vibe, you have to use certain things. It’s the same way when cats want some neo-soul, you can’t get that out of a Korg Triton. Sometimes you have to go ‘80s and use the authentic instruments that they used back then. That’s kind of what we did. We used the technology of today with the music from back then and we met in the middle and we made something epic.
Was most of this recorded together?
Celph Titled: Most of my vocals were done in Tampa. We had a couple of sessions in New York and New Jersey as we were working on things. A lot of it was done through email and phone.
A song like “I Can Write a Rhyme” shows a more serious side that we don’t normally see. Were you out of your comfort zone on a song like that?
Celph Titled: I knew I had to do something like that. Coming with my first album, there’s too much mystique behind me and I couldn’t come with all that cartoon shit. It wasn’t hard but it was different. I had never wrote a song like that before where I was telling my story, but I thought it was very important that the fans know my story from start to finish and now I don’t have to answer no more damn questions. If anyone has any questions about how I came up, listen to that song and I tell you exactly how it is.
Buckwild: It’s also about that versatility. Hip-hop fans try to put you in one lane. Fans can’t say it’s the same thing he did before. With any artist, there’s different spectrums to them. He showed a lot of different colors, which is important to not be pigeonholed.
Celph Titled: I get the criticism that I’m a one-trick pony and all I can do is punchlines. I like doing that but I also had to let people know I’m a real MC. Anything you want me to talk about or say, I’m fully capable of.
What’s the worst questions you get from fans?
Celph Titled: Do I hate Lil’ Wayne? Do I hate Eminem? They ask any questions they can about other rappers. They think I hate other rappers. Those are probably the dumbest questions I get and they annoy me. Don’t ask me about other rappers. You can tell when you listen to me that I’m not a hater. I give respect when it’s due but don’t ask me about other rappers.
You’re an underground rapper. You’re supposed to hate everybody.
Celph Titled: Yeah. That’s the stereotype.
What was it like working with Treach from Naughty By Nature on “Out to Lunch”?
Celph Titled: Man, that one was crazy right there because not only with Buck with the production, but the whole fact that we were able to get him. He totally understood the concept of the project and the song and we got him to come back to that, that “niggedy nasty Naughty,” that ill ‘90s flow. He still brought it with the skills of today but he brought that flavor back and I was so grateful that he was down with that and he was willing to try hard. Sometimes you ask them to come with it and they say whatever, but he came with it. Much love to Treach. And I know Buck. Buck’s a big Treach fan.
Buckwild: Yeah. To me, I think hip-hop has been split into underground and commercial and commercially, they say the older the guys get, they don’t have it anymore. Treach can bring it with the best of them and maybe some of these cats don’t know and hearing them now and hearing them fresh, maybe it might spark the fans’ interest and get other artists to work with Treach. This project is different and maybe it might open other people’s minds to do something conceptual instead of doing stuff in the same format.
What was the writing process like for you, Celph, on “Step Correctly”?
Celph Titled: Man, that was really me doing what I love to do, just having fun with it. As the years have gone by, if you’ve followed my stuff from the late ‘90s to the 2000s, over time I’ve had more fun with it and I think you can tell that on these songs. I like to joke and I like to have fun with it. I’m tired of people wanting to be so serious with it all of the time. It’s nothing but serious music all of the time. Entertainment is entertainment, man, and I’m here to entertain.
Buckwild: Whatever you want to soak up, we’ll give it to you from lyrics to skits to production. It is a movie.
Celph Titled: The one thing about a lot of dudes, especially the ones who are supposed to be so-called tough-guys, they are real people. They’re not always serious all of the time. You can see what a lot of these dudes are doing is cosmetic.
Buckwild: Even with getting fans, everything you do you want to increase your fanbase. Hopefully this is something that can open a lot of people’s minds up to what we’re doing.
Celph Titled: That’s the whole thing. Shit. I don’t even have more to say to that. That’s perfect.
Celph, what are your favorite punchlines when you’re talking about your gun?
Celph Titled: Oh, man, there’s too many, man. That’s too hard! I have a lot of them. I would say not even on some gun shit but on some just wild out cleverness is on “Funkmaster Sex.” I went in with the whole bitch thing and the whole sex thing on some pretty clever punches in there. I don’t know, man. I would probably have to give you a different answer every time. I think I got some pretty clever shit on there. But I might do another song and say, “That ain’t shit compared to what I got here.”
What about you, Buck?
Buckwild: That is definitely a hard question. Even having a favorite, when people ask me about that with production, when you have something that’s so dope, it’s hard to have one that’s your favorite. One day you can like this record and another day you can like this. Even over time and making records, I can go back and almost compare to an album like O.C. and doing his first album, years later, every year or two going back and listening to it, a lot of the lines have different meanings and I think a lot of people forget that. Celph is not an ordinary rapper dude. Every time you listen, you’re going to get a different meaning. It’s really hard to pinpoint a favorite. If it was something that was real shallow, I could pinpoint it. But the project isn’t shallow.
Celph Titled: that’s a good compliment, man. I try to pack so much into every line that there’s no filler. Most rappers will come in and there’s a couple jewels and they will really stand out compared to the rest of the verse. I try to really stand out and I try to use my style and my swagger to finesse it. A lot goes into each one. There’s no filler.
What’s your writing process like?
Celph Titled: My writing process is a combination of things. I keep notes on me. I might be driving somewhere and shit just comes in my head. Something clever might come in my head and it’ll be a seed. Sometimes when I get a beat, I’ll compile a lot of these notes together and try to make it work and a lot of times, I’ll just start from scratch and come up with shit line-by-line. That didn’t happen until recently. Your brain is a muscle and you have to exercise it. It’s hard to have it how Jay and B.I.G. had it where they would write their verse in their head and just keep memorizing it and then when they got to the booth, they would recite it. You can work it with the cleverness too to come with it consistently.
Buckwild: His technique is almost like how Big L did it. He used to do the same thing. Rest in Peace. A lot of dudes try to pack every line of every song. You jot notes down on pieces of paper and you could end up with a whole drawer full of papers and notebooks. This is how you get the best of what you’re going to get instead of just saying you’re going to go in and write a 16. When it comes out, it may sound simple but in reality, it’s so intricate because it takes a little while to just build on the verse. The verse could be months in the making because of all the little notes that you have down that you put together.
Celph Titled: That’s how L did his stuff?
Buckwild: Yeah, L had a whole drawer full of little pieces of paper.
Celph Titled: Aww.
Buckwild: To me, I look at it as an MC thing. This is how you can separate the real from the phonies. Just seeing certain things, even with Finesse, he used to do the same thing. Nas wasn’t a quick writer also. It would take him a little while to craft it. B.I.G. would recite lines in his head, but for him to craft it, it has to flow smooth. He can’t just say this and then say anything. When you’re telling a story, you have to have the story make sense. That’s why he was one of the best storytellers of his age.
Celph Titled: When you use that technique though, you might have a bunch of lines about females, like going back to that “Funkmaster Sex” joint. I had a bunch of lines and I knew where all my bitch lines were. I wanted to make all that be a concept.
I can just let you guys talk. This is better than anything I can ask.
Buckwild: A self-interview.
Celph Titled: Oh, shit, that’s like a double metaphor! (laughs)
Buckwild: I guess that’s just the artistic side. Sometimes when you get two people who click, it just goes like that.
Celph Titled: When you get two people with the same vision, all you can do is focus on the details from that point and that’s what we did.
In the mid ‘90s, Buck, you were doing a lot of work and Celph, you hadn’t started out yet…
Celph Titled: Oh, I was a fan. I was going to the record store and getting all of these Artifacts CD singles and trying to collect all the vinyl and CDs with all this dude’s production. It really is 15 years in the making for me. Here I am a huge fan of Buckwild and trying to collect every record he produced and dreaming of doing a project with him to do a project with him to represent where my heart was at and as far as hip-hop and that feeling, being able to do that once I was fully capable…At that time, of course I wasn’t ready and I wasn’t a sharpened MC but now, I am sharpened and I am established. And to be able to be able to do that exact thing that I was able to do, if I die tomorrow, I’m happy that I was able to accomplish that. It’s such a good project. That's my mark. That’s my motherfucking mark. It is what it is, man.
On “Miss Those Days,” Celph got to talk about his favorite memories from the ‘90s. What about you, Buck?
Buckwild: I could just say the camaraderie and the competition. The thing about it was that rap was so cool, even if you had a problem, there wasn’t so many beef records. The rappers where rappers and the rappers who were gangsters, they were the ones who made the happiest songs. Everybody really hung out together too. You had Biggie who sold double platinum and he’d be hanging with Tek from Smif-N-Wesson and Primo would be coming to chill with these dudes. I could see Jay-Z on the street and Jay-Z would stop. Everybody got along and it was all love. Mic Geronimo was in the underground and he was cool with those dudes. You didn’t have to be in a tax bracket to be cool with them. Everybody got along and nobody was really jealous of another person’s success. It was really like one big party.
How do you think that changed?
Buckwild: I think what happened is just the fact of when you have people who are more fans. I do believe that a lot of the cats in the ‘90s were still hip-hop fans. Once you take the fan element out, then you have people who aren’t doing it for the love and getting paid off it. That’s the key thing. But if you don’t love what you’re doing, it’s going to show in the music. And the corporations are allowed to dictate what is hip-hop. That’s the one thing that kind of hurt it too. Once the million dollar budgets settled down, what we have is what we have now. People can come in and feed their family but back then, there was still something there that made people get along. There was respect and a lot of people don’t respect each other nowadays. That respect as a man is gone and the competitiveness is gone. We would be waiting in lines for hours at The Wiz and record shops. That’s all I knew was hip-hop. I still lived the same things I was living every day. The first time I ran into G. Rap, it was like “Oh shit, I’m with G. Rap.” I was playing “Halftime” and then meeting him a year later when Big L signed. There was a love for it and I don’t think it’s the same thing today.
Celph Titled: Nah. It’s like a reverse. Back in the days, you could walk into a cipher and dudes were rapping. I don’t know if dudes are ciphering anymore. Now if you walk into a room with a bunch of dudes smoking blunts, they’ll clown you for trying to be too “rappity rap.” “Man, you rap too much. I’m just trying to talk about that real shit.” Now you get ridiculed for trying where back then you would get ridiculed for coming with some lame shit.
Correct me if I’m wrong. I see a lot of unity with up-and-coming rappers today, but they don’t seem to have the respect of the hardcore fans.
Buckwild: You know what it is? These older rappers aren’t reaching back to them unless they’re making noise. It’s sad. I know a lot of cats across the country that I think are great MCs and it’s just unfortunate that these cats don’t want to do records with them until they make a name for themselves. Take a dude like Yelawolf. Watch how many records he pops up on this year. Rappers don’t want to do records with you because you’re dope. They want to get some of your shine and your shine is going to keep them going. It’s sad. When you look at how Large Professor put Nas on a record or Lord Finesse put Big L on a record, you don’t have that no more. When you have a dude who’s young with a crazy style, you don’t see people working together.
Celph Titled: There’s no outlet. If you’re really, really ill with it, back in the day you would be rewarded for it. Dudes would invite you. Now you gotta be really, really nasty and you gotta be an entrepreneur and you gotta pay so many dues now. Nobody wants to believe in your talent no more. You gotta put stuff out on your own and see how it does. Nobody wants to take risks no more. Back then they did it because they believed in the talent of the artist.
Buckwild: Or if they do, you have to sign a 10 year contract. There’s no camaraderie. Artists do the mixtape thing and like 50 said, the mixtape thing peaked with him. I think you have to try a different source of media to break yourself as an artist. The bad thing is you have a lot of cats who are nice but I can’t listen to a thousand mixtapes because out of that thousand, how many are really going to be dope?
Celph Titled: It’s crazy saturated. Back in the day, if you were trying to build up your buzz, it was like, ‘What’s your buzz song?’ Now you have to have a promotional campaign and a mixtape and have 20 joints and spread yourself thin and give it away. There’s too much to soak up.
Buckwild: Too much content. Let’s take the Wu-Tang. They dropped “Protect Ya Neck” first and then “Method Man” on the B-side. Can you imagine if you heard 36 Chambers first? People would say they had to hear more. You gotta drop three to five mixtapes just to get a buzz and it’s kind of crazy. After I’ve heard 48 songs from you, what are you going to do on your album?
Celph Titled: A lot of times dudes will bust their load on a mixtape and then when it’s time for them to do an album, in some cases the music that they put out for free trumped their album because they ran out of shit. It’s crazy-backwards, man.
Celph, when you look at Nineteen Ninety Now as being your debut album, do you wish you had dropped something awhile ago?
Celph Titled: Definitely wish I had done things differently in the past. I don’t have any regrets but I wish I had been a little more motivated. I’m from that era where you kind of look for someone to put you on based on your talent and your skill. I definitely had some good looks from people but I think I kind of waited around too much waiting for something to pop. I was around a lot of big movements, like when Apathy got the Atlantic deal and when I was rolling with Mike Shinoda and Linkin Park. It seemed like it was in the bag and I wish I had done more to brand myself independently and put out albums earlier. But I am glad I’m putting this out in 2010 because it couldn’t be more perfect. If I were to put something out in 2005, I don’t think I’m as sharp as I am now. It worked out well, it’s just not a good time in the market right now. And nobody is doing concepts like this. Maybe there’s some people trying to recreate some shit, but this isn’t even trying to be a throwback. This is reminding people how it can be. If we put the same attention to detail and use the same aesthetics, it can be done again. This is raw.
And you’re going completely independent with this.
Celph Titled: Yep, No Sleep all the way. The project is just the three of us, me, Buck and James. There’s no parent label. This is just the three of us.
So what happens to the fan who tells you he downloaded the album last night?
Celph Titled: I’m not going to make any threats, man, but you’re not going to get a good reaction from me. That’s kind of like coming up to me and disrespecting me, even if they don’t know it or not. Even if they think downloading is cool…When you spend three years on an album and you put so much work into each painstaking detail and you spend money to get it mixed properly, it’s a slap in the face. You don’t ask somebody to come and fix your refrigerator off their love of fixing refrigerators. You don’t tell your lawn guy that he should be doing it off the love of mowing lawns. I love how you mown lawns so you should just keep doing it for that love. No, man. There’s a reason we spent full-time on this. If we spent full-time working somewhere else, we wouldn’t be able to make these albums. It’s going to come to a point where this type of stuff will cease to exist if people’s attitudes don’t change about supporting, especially the independents. I don’t really care about the majors.
Buckwild: Support the guys that don’t get all that they deserve. There’s not some guy at a company who didn’t have anything to do with this who’s just eating off of it. Nah, this is all us.
Celph Titled: When you purchase this, you’re really donating to the cause so we can continue doing this.
What does Nineteen Ninety Now have to do for you to consider it a success?
Buckwild: You’re going to have downloads and it’s gonna happen. The only thing you can wish for is that it’s a big success and if people do it the right way, cool. If not, we can’t fight everybody. It is what it is and if it does well, cool. And if not, it’s still cool. At least if it’s something where whatever service you gave, you got it back with what you put out. Even with majors, you gotta kind of look at it when people download it, it’s a loss but it’s a loss that can’t be prevented right now. You can look at it almost like promo, even if it’s digital. You can download it and see if you like it and go buy it.
Celph Titled: A project like this is rare and not to toot our own horns right now, but there’s nobody else like us out there who have done a concept like this or spent three years on it to get it right. If fans want to hear more of us, they have to let us know by supporting it. To get a CD, you can go to any chain restaurant with a waiter and shit and spend more on that meal than you would to listen to this album. If you let us know you support it, we can continue giving you this. We know it’s not going to be platinum success. Nothing can do that nowadays, but if the sales can show us success and there’s the media hype and we get what we’re supposed to get and the right looks and the write-ups, then that’s a success too. I know we’re not worried though. Even if it’s a slow burner for a year and people are talking a year from now about picking up the album, then that’s good. It’s definitely a project that’s meant to last.
Buck, are you going to release more beats from your vault?
Buckwild: I think this is good enough. I think we selected the best of the best. I’m more than happy with it and Celph is more than happy with it. I don’t think it’s something I need to keep running into the ground. I think as a producer you need to evolve. Even people in my crew tell me that I’ve been around for so long and it’s only because I look at things competitively. I try to look at things as something else and not try to repeat the same record and not do the same thing. As long as I can do that, that’s cool.
Celph Titled: That’s what I say with that too. We kind of concept’ed it out. It can really only be done one time and we used the best of what we had access to. I know I don’t want to be pigeonholed where every so many years you expect me to do another project like this or a throwback thing.
Buckwild: It’s like OutKast. They never made the same album twice and the artists grew and they did their own thing. It’s like that. If we don’t push the bar in hip-hop, even production-wise, it’s not saying it’s bad to use the SP-1200 or 950, but we can always push the bar to do something great if we use our minds. Sometimes there might not be a time for the record, but as long as we’re here and we’re trying to do this, we’re going to push the envelope. Even guys like Alchemist and Just Blaze, a lot of these guys are friends of mine and I can hear their beats and be greatly inspired and want to step my game up. Even the Heatmakerz, I’m cool with them through Scram Jones. I think the producers are the only ones nowadays how have respect for each other and don’t fight. Can’t we just get along, make money and make good music? That respect is what we have and that’s why we can keep pushing the bar and not be rereleasing things. Let’s make it better. We’re not trying to make square wheels. We’re just trying to make wheels look better.
Celph, on Nineteen Ninety Now, you said “OutKast went from pimping to being weirdoes.” If you take that route, we will have a problem.
Celph Titled: (laughs) Nah, I ain’t gonna do that! I ain’t gonna do the OutKast route. It worked out for them but it’s not gonna work for me. I’m definitely going to keep my flavor but don’t expect me to do another album like this. I blessed y’all with an album like this and we’re gonna keep it moving.
Buck, did you have any beats that were hard to let go on this?
Buckwild: Even looking at it, it’s not a hard thing to let go. When you’re excited about something, it’s not hard to let go. Even looking at it, it brought more joy to the project. Every producer who’s made it, like Pete Rock, Q-Tip, Bomb Squad, even Mannie Fresh, all these guys are attached to a project and you don’t want to put your worst beats on there. You want to put the best of the best and make it something that people need to hear. It’s a great vibe for the album.
Why do you think some of these beats didn’t move back then?
Buckwild: Everything has a time. I can jump out into another thing like Jadakiss’ “Pain and Torture.” That was done at the same time I did “My Lifestyle” for Fat Joe and I know that because Armageddon called me that he had that on the beat tape when “Pain and Torture” came out. Every song has its time place and time and I think there’s a right time for people to hear stuff. That song doesn’t sound like some retro shit.
Celph Titled: Yeah. A lot of people have a misconception about this project. I’ve had a lot of people tell me they’re real skeptical about his project and that I just hollered at Buck and begged him to give me some old throwaways. As you can testify from hearing it, there’s a time for everything and so many things might have been tied up in label issues or there was a sample issue back then. There’s so many reasons why stuff falls through the cracks and we were just fortunate to catch these before they fell through the cracks forever.