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10/24/2005 How are you doing man? Everything's good homie. I'm just out here in Southern California, the land of the sunny skies and drive-by's. How do you feel about the way 'Grandmasters' came out? I'm very pleased with the record. Me and GZA just tapped into the energy we bring. It's a real dark record. It's just straight lyrics and beats. It's based on the four elements of Hip Hop. How did the album come about? We got together in '97. We were already homies. Me and RZA were doing a song. I had GZA direct a video for the song, called "Third World." We kept in touch. We did a song for the next "Soul Assassin" record. People in both our camps were telling us to do a record together because we had good chemistry. It was just a matter of time. We waited a few years, and now I have this situation with Angeles Records, so I told him, "let's just connect homie." He put a couple weeks aside, came out to L.A., and we just banged this shit out. What did you want to give GZA to work with? My natural sound is really, without thinking about it, my music just comes out real dark, dusty, and grimy. When we talked about it, we said "let's keep it like that." We wanted to keep that mood, the atmosphere, don't overproduce a record, and let the lyrics shine. We didn't want to overproduce the record, we really wanted to keep it simple and tap into that era from the early '90's, we both love that era, and we wanted to keep it right there. How do you guys work together? Real easy. We're both professionals. I gave him some beats, he wrote some songs in New York. Then he came out here and went through my beats. Some of the beats he picked, I had done from '96 to '98. I didn't have the actual tapes for it, we had to loop the DAT's. There's a couple songs with just loops. We were like "let's just keep it raw." Some of the most classic shit is a loop, like EPMD's "You're a Customer." We just wanted create a mood and it wasn't about all that other shit. Do you feel like a lot of records are over-produced? When I produce, I like to tap into what that artist is. When I work with B-Real, he smokes weed, so I'll tap into that. GZA plays chess, so I had to tap into that and bring his personality out through everything from the album cover to the song titles. Everything now is all cookie-cutter. Major labels will tell you that they need something for the radio, video channels won't play your shit unless it's on the radio…I came into Hip Hop with a punk rock attitude with a real Hip Hop attitude. Everything was "fuck you, fuck R&B, fuck these R&B hooks." There used to be a word called biting. You couldn't bite man. You couldn't use nobody's words, you couldn't use their musical style, you couldn't use their loops, you couldn't dress the way they did, use their slang…and there was something called "being wack." Now if you tell somebody that they're wack, they tell you're a hater. No, I'm not a hater. You have to be accepted into this. Back in the 80's they didn't know what they were doing as far as record promotions, now they got it down to a science. Everything was built on respect and honor. This record is straight from the heart. We're not trying to follow nobody or chase these smoke and mirrors. This is good music. This is just real shit like Pink Floyd and Iggy Pop, some atonal, dark, alley shit. When we were talking earlier, you said you think people listen with their eyes and not their ears… Yeah! People watch videos all day, and they see styles. Once they get enough of a style, they move on to the next region. They're looking at the music these days. Everyone's so caught up on what people are wearing, their chains, and a guy's haircut. They really do man. Everybody's too busy listening to music with their eyes these days man. I can't blame these kids though man. A lot of motherfuckers think they're in charge and they're doing something, but in reality they're really sheep. Nobody wants to think of themselves as being a sheep, everyone wants to think of themselves as bosses. But really homie, y'all ain't bosses. You're chasing trends. When I first came in, I said I would never be a trend-chaser. Any trend that comes and goes, I don't chase it. I do what I do, that's why I've been able to be in this game for 18 years still making hit records and being able to move through it. If you start chasing trends, you're always going to have to play catch-up and trying to catch the next trend. I refuse to play the game like that. I want to bring something fresh to this game, bring ideas to this game, and bring something new and innovative to this Hip Hop game and keep it moving. Do you ever think you could be richer if you did conform? Nah, because I am rich. I've sold over 16 million records and done over 350 shows. We have so many investments, our portfolio is spread wide. I've never had to conform. All the records I had that blew up on radio did not sound like radio records. I think that if I didn't have success early, I would have second-guessed myself and maybe thought I had to do what the other people were doing. My whole psyche would have changed. I built my own institution. When Hip Hop was just getting here, I was traveling the world. When motherfuckers were worried about the East, West, South, I was looking at Hip Hop as a global market. I was pushing music globally. I wasn't concerned what a few fans in New York or an internet nerd in Tacoma, Washington was saying. I wanted an international market, and we are international. Do you feel like you get the respect you deserve for everything you've accomplished? From my peers and people that know, yeah. From people from the outside, probably not. The game is fucked up. When I came in, the groups I respected produced their own albums, EPMD, Ultramagnetic, Public Enemy, N.W.A., they all produced their own albums. Do you see where I'm coming from? All of a sudden they started judging producer's merits on how many beats you have on someone else's record. I gave Ice Cube beats, I gave KRS beats, I gave the Goodie Mob beats. But when you're trying to sell beats, you're standing with ten other producers trying to sell that nickelbag. When you walk into the studio and there are 15 other producers, nah, that's not my game. I like to own my shit. I like control of my shit from the first beat being made to the video to the t-shirt to the promotion. I own my shit, so I get my checks for the rest of my life. I've always been about ownership. I've sent beat tapes out, and they'll say they don't want my beat and then it gets replayed. After a few of those, I said "fuck that" and created my own cult following. You're not going to be the youngest, hottest fucking stud your whole life. If you have that cult following, you'll have fans forever. I look at bands like Led Zeppelin, The Doors, and Black Sabbath for my inspiration. I don't get my inspiration from rappers, except for the ones I mentioned earlier. I want to be a legendary band, timeless, like Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones. What artists are you feeling today? There's a lot of good shit I like right now. I definitely like 50 Cent homie, that motherfucker can rap his ass off, fuck what else is going on. I like T.I., I like Bun B…I like Lil' Wayne right now, he surprised me with his new single, I was like "damn, homie's coming with it right now!" I like Saigon, Tru Life…you know Tru Life's speaking a lot of the shit I'm feeling right now. I'm from New York, and I came to L.A. when I was 17. I've been back and forth my whole life. I used to come back to New York and they were laughing at gangbanging. I used to wear khakis and t-shirts, and they were like "you look like a trash worker, you can't come in the club, those are sanitation clothes." To see New York, where everyone used to look to it for motivation, and now everything's flipped and New York is using other motherfucker's slang and they're on other motherfucker's dicks. That's strange to me, and I haven't heard anyone address it to now. I'm talking before MTV Raps I was going back and forth, information didn't travel as fast. Then videos came out and it traveled faster, but now you have the internet and everything travels by the second. You just signed Mitchey Slick to Angeles Records, what made you want to work with him? Mitch is a real businessman. He's a real gentleman. He's about his business. He conducts himself like a professional in the studio. He's on time, comes through, his music moves on the streets, ten to twenty thousand units a time on the underground. He's on his business all the way to real estate. Besides being talented, he's got everything else going too. You can be talented but if you're lazy, I really don't want to fuck with you. So we said "let's get together and do a project together." We got together, and boom, we're going to put his album out February 21. What else is going on with Angeles? Right now, we have Self-Scientific's album coming out October 25, the record is called "Change." The album is incredible. August 29, we have DJ Warrior's mixtape coming out, the West Coast Mixtape King, he's one the Justo Award the last couple of years. We're trying to create a brotherhood in L.A. A lot of people stay in their own corner. The only shit you really see coming out of L.A. is Aftermath and the big business. We're more like a boutique. We may not be a McDonald's or Foot Locker, but we're that bomb-ass sneaker boutique down the street or that bomb-ass restaurant that only has ten seats in it. That's us. We decided to create a brotherhood of the best talent out here. With everybody putting something into the pie, it makes us stronger. How did you come up with Mash-Up Radio? That's a slang term we use in L.A., like if you're going to go "mash" on a fool, or I'm going to get in my ride and go "mash" you. I had a regular Hip Hop show, but I got sick of it. Everyone has a Hip Hop show, and some of them are good. I wanted to bring something different because I'm known for bringing the Rock and Hip Hop. Look at Rick Rubin, he made his mark in Hip Hop and then worked with Johnny Cash. I want to do records with U2, Janet Jackson, Tricky, George Michael, all across the board. I wanted to do my show different where it would be Hip Hop-inspired, where Heads can listen and say this shit is banging and it has the energy of Hip Hop. Where do you see this going? Right now, we're on Sirius Shade 45, Monday Night Mash-Ups. I have nine other cities right now. We're in the midst of doing a VH1 special on it, a movie on it. We're also working on a tour. We have a lot of shit planned for the next year. As a DJ, what do you think the people need to hear? What I did like in the Hip Hop movement was a few years ago, kids were putting out 12"'s again. People that couldn't get heard were like "fuck it, I'm going to do it my own." It used to be commonplace to put out 12"'s, people didn't have albums, from Def Jam, Wild Pitch, Sleeping Bag, these miscellaneous labels. Then it bubbled into a much bigger game, and not everyone can relate to what the labels are doing. Not everyone's from the hood, or from the South with gold teeth. So kids started putting out 12"'s, and that's what we're in the process of doing at Angeles Records. We're putting out the music we want to put out, and that's what the game needs. It needs the kids that are brave like the Atmosphere's and Dilated Peoples. They built their own followings, hit the road…Atmosphere can sell 18,000 when they drop. That's what's revolutionary to me. They're not chasing the Jay-Z's, Lil' Wayne's, they're doing their own thing, and that's Hip Hop to me. How is it working in the Wu fam? We click like that. We're good homies man. We do a lot of favors for each other behind the scenes that people don't even know about. We just click like that. You meet certain people, you click like that, you meet other people, and you don't click. It just so happens that we click. The notion of "soul" seems very important to you, and it's definitely important in the Wu…what's your concept of soul? Soul is putting your energy forth in your music. I was never trained musically. I approach my music sideways, I'm very awkward in my style and production. A lot of things are off, and they've always been off. RZA approaches his music the same way. It's odd that two brothers that never knew each other have similar approaches, but really don't even have an approach. You were the first one to recognize Infamous Mobb, are you doing anything with them today? Nah. Infamous Mobb was rapping for three or four months before they got on the Soul Assassins record. I thought they were cool. My man Bigga B introduced me to them. They came through and I liked their flavor. I liked their unity and their sense of brotherhood. Speaking of Bigga B, what can you tell people about him? First off, he worked at Loud for a bunch of years. I met Mobb through him. He brought everybody together in this place called Unity. Everyone from every walk of life would come together to do Hip Hop shows. He's one of the coolest brothers you could ever meet. A great businessman and an incredible friend. His partner Chace, from Self-Scientific, we met each other and Bigga B was always saying "you guys have to fuck with each other" and now we have the label. I met Mobb Deep through Bigga, and now Alchemist has clicked with Mobb Deep because I introduced him. I met GZA through Bigga. We're still doing things today through his touch. Are you proud of how far Alchemist has come? Oh hell yeah! Al was just a little kid banging on some drum machines, and now he's the hottest producer in the game to me. Al took everything we showed him and everything we gave him, and he took it to another level with honor, pride, and respect. He always gave respect and we kept fucking with each other. When you on top sometimes you have to pull brothers up and other times you'll need to be pulled up. I'm very proud to see Al on top doing what he's doing. How important is it to help others trying to come up? When me and Al were coming up, we didn't have a team. We figured out how the shit worked, we made our own demos, and made it. I saw him as a child prodigy, and I knew he was going to make it with or without me, but I could make his path a lot easier and show him things that he wouldn't have to go through, the trials and tribulations and learning curves. He was 14 years old touring with us, Cypress Hill, House of Pain, Funkdoobiest, Rage Against the Machine. We did three Smokin' Grooves. He was always in the studio with me. We'd go record shipping. He's just a good human being man. Do you feel like your use of live instruments is a natural progression that comes with maturity? When I first started, I said I would never use live instruments, but now I use it. Whatever the project calls for, I'll do it. The GZA project didn't call for it. If I'm doing some rock shit, I may have to. Some do better with samples, some are better starting with instruments. It depends where your mind is at as a musician. I come from playing records, blending beats, learning where the breaks are. I kind of learned from DJ'ing. How do you mold your music to fit the different artists you work with? I just make a bunch of music. I'll sit down here and make a bunch of beats in a week. It depends who I work with. I'll let them sit down and pick stuff out. I prefer working from scratch. A lot of times, artists may not pick something I would pick for them. I have my ideas, and they have theirs, but it works out. How important is it for you to stay in rock music as well? It doesn't matter to me. I come from a Hip Hop backbone. Everything I do is Hip Hop-inspired. As an artist, I refuse to paint the same picture throughout my whole career. I refuse to always use the same colors. I like experimenting, inventing, and trying, pushing myself, seeing what I can do. Even if something is out of my league, I like to try it anyways and see what I can do and challenge myself. I get bored with this shit a lot. Are you still cool with Dr. Dre today? Yeah, Dre's cool as hell, every time I see him it's all good. Are you going to be doing anything with him? The only thing in the plans is we started a Soul Assassin record, and he said whenever we're ready, to hit him up. Your "Soul Assassin" mixtape got a lot of buzz, what do you use your mixtapes for? My mixtapes are strictly for awareness and promotion. I just want to hit my fans and make new fans. I'll print up five or ten thousand and hand them out like business cards. The mixtapes for me is for that. It's not a financial thing. It's just to let everyone know about the projects we have coming up. Do you feel like the mixtape game is fucked up? I don't know a lot of them, but I see a few of them here and there that's all about their ego, their benefit, and what they can do when they don't even have skills as a DJ. They think if you get an exclusive you're the best DJ. Motherfuckers' attention spans are so short, they hear a song once and then it's played out. Good music never gets played out, that's why it's classic. Just because you heard it once doesn't mean it's played out. A lot of these DJ's are caught up. They're also bottom-feeders scouring for peoples music, stealing it, taking it, and putting it on their tapes like they did it. Nah homie, you're just a fucking leech, leeching your whole shit off of someone else's creativity. You didn't write the shit, you didn't produce the shit. Anybody can put that shit out. I don't even have the time to do that shit, getting three dollars a tape on some bullshit that I don't own and I won't see royalties down the line. It's a stepping stone if you want to see it like that, but then you have to step up homie. If you could choose between a rock star, Hip Hop star, or porn star, what would you choose? Man, I just be me. I don't need to be no star. I don't need to be famous. Just let me get my dough and do my music and take care of the family, and I'm cool. You seem to be down with a lot of people in the porn industry, what's the craziest thing you ever saw? A gang of freaks. A lot of bitches out of their minds. Do you still enjoy touring? It wears on you after a while. If you go out there and work hard, sleep, and get your rest, you'll be good. But if you go out there and trying to drink and party, it'll wear on you. I just go out there and get my money and take it home. The first couple of tours, you'll wild out. Now I just go out there and conduct business and get home. What do you want to say to everyone out there reading this? I'd like to say to everybody whose been representing and holding me down all these years, thank you very much. Anybody who don't know, check it out and see if it's your cup of tea.

By Brian Kayser

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DJ Muggs VS GZA 'Grandmasters' in stores October 25.