DON'T MISS TODAY:

Back to Artist Profiles

10/30/2006 How are you? I'm feeling great. I'm actually just getting off my regular 9 to 5. I've had a lot of really good business things happen lately with Tragedy Khadafi and C.Rayz Walz, who's starting a new label Sun Cycle Entertainment. I'm also working with Trag to get 25 II Life Records in order. Another artist I've been managing since he was 13 and I was 19 is Trunks and his project is moving along great. We've been doing a lot of business lately. Kim Osorio's recent sexual harassment trial and verdict has raised a lot of questions about how women were treated at The Source and how women are treated in the hip-hop industry in general. You were at The Source for a year. What were your responsibilities while you were there? I came on The Source staff as associate editor. It was funny-style the way it all went down. I came in to interview for the position of culture editor. Me being involved in a lot of foundational things with hip-hop, especially on the East Coast and working with a lot of the graffiti artists who were kings of the train lines, having met Afrika Bambaataa and having done many things with the Rocksteady Crew, my view of hip-hop is more of a worldview. It's much more than hip-hop music or DJ's. I was really meant to be culture editor and that's what I interviewed for. Fahiym Ratcliffe was a peer of mine, to be generous. He had worked under me at Complex magazine. To the best of my knowledge he had never been an editor. He and I were both being interviewed for the culture editor position. I was the obvious choice both in terms of my knowledge of hip-hop culture and my experience as editor. The climate at the time, which is coming out now, was Kim and the managing editor Adila couldn't approach Dave or Benzino and say, We have a new culture editor, and by the way, it's a woman. I had an overstanding of that, however having to take a big dip down the masthead from my previous position, which was senior editor of Complex magazine and having to take a pay cut and having to report to people who were not senior to me in the game, it was a very difficult position for me to take. I think they put me there as associate editor to have me as an asset. They had me doing some work in the culture section and they had me doing some of the gossip section. Anybody who knows me knows that's the furthest thing from me. There were a variety of duties that I handled there. To me, it was a blessing in disguise because I got to work a lot with Gotti Bonanno, whom I really respect as an editor, writer, A&R and someone who really has his ear to the street. I got to do some amazing things. I got to put Immortal Technique and Hieroglyphics in The Source. I also got to put C.Rayz Walz in The Source. They wouldn't have been featured in those days and times. I was able to slide them in, The articles were much shorter than they should have been. The articles weren't respectful to the artists, particularly to the Hieroglyphics, who are so O.G. in this game. But they were seen by millions of people. I felt like I was able to do something even under the regime. They only had an understanding of rap and they didn't care about hip-hop culture as far as the elements went. Did the higher-ups at The Source even have a deep understanding of rap music? It was really vast and it was really varied. Unfortunately it was very pop-heavy as far as the people making the decisions in what went in the magazine. I didn't think they had a lot of interest in putting in the independent, grassroots hip-hop. They had miniscule sections in the magazine to pay lip service to those artists and b-boys and DJ's and graffiti writers and everyone else. The Hieroglyphics had just purchased a multi-million dollar building to house their studio, record label and clothing line. Purchased. That's major to me. You should be writing a cover story on that. I look at The Source and XXL as McDonald's and Burger King. I'm a vegetarian. I would not spend my money to get fast food. They're the top-tier of urban media right now but their main purpose is not to show people the real side of hip-hop, whether it's in the streets, the college campuses or the underground. Their main purpose is to gain advertising dollars and to maintain a steady stream of income, commercialism and materialism. Most hip-hop, whether it was Self-Scientific or Zion I or any groups that fall into the category of edutainment or have any social commentary in their music, they'll pay minor lip service to it but it really goes against their agenda to place any of those artists in the forefront of their publication. They would do it to an extent. Don't get me confused because there were so many editors and writers, even interns and executives, who were very passionate and knowledgeable about hip-hop. Jeremy Miller was there when Dave Mays and Jonathan Shecter first started The Source, right after the time when it was a one-page fax in the industry. He loved Down South music and he knew things about Southern artists that no one else knew. He would tell us what to check for from that region and who to watch out for. People were also coming at us from all payola angles. Someone offered me $10,000 for an Off the Radar section and that section was small. Then there were artists who deserved articles but I could only put them in the Off the Radar. Then you had Fahiym Ratcliffe and Gotti, who are very knowledgeable of hip-hop and rap, aware of so many things that I wasn't aware of. There was a cat named Joseph Wilkes who worked in the advertising department. He started the same day I did. He was a white kid from the Midwest and he blew my mind away in one conversation with what he knew about underground and independent and foundational hip-hop. It was really sad because you had all this energy and knowledge in the office and it could have been such an amazing publication. I can't speak for the times I wasn't there. Did you feel you were you treated differently than a man would have been treated during your interview? I was interviewed by Adila Francis and I interviewed with Kim. I never interviewed with Dave Mays or Benzino or any male employee. There were two things I felt I was up against. One of them was being a women in hip-hop who had a history. There were a lot of women who came into The Source as interns or secretaries. A lot of the women got their positions because of how they looked or a certain facet of their personality. I was coming in with more than a decade experience of working in the hip-hop industry and working as an editor at other magazines. I was the West Coast managing editor of Stress and the senior editor at Complex. I was coming in with a resume that was far superior to that of Kim's or any women on the staff and many men on the staff. I already knew I had something to go up against in terms of even having that interview and moving forward. It was also a major issue being born and raised in LA and spending seven years in the Bay. I lived in New York off and on but anybody who knows me knows I'm a California girl. They wanted my knowledge of the West Coast but they didn't want me putting too much in there so it wouldn't be New York-centric or industry-centric. They didn't want a lot of stuff if it wasn't from major entertainment conglomerates. I know how the game goes and I made that decision to be that spook that sat behind the door and to represent hip-hop in The Source. I made that decision to go to war. I'm a b-girl and I've represented this culture all my life and I made a decision to go in there and fight for any tiny inkling I can get in that magazine. How were your interactions with Dave Mays, Benzino and other male employees? Was there any funny business? Honestly, to be real with HipHopGame, there was a lot of funny business going on on both sides of the coin. There was a lot of stuff going on at nighttime or even during the day. There was the W hotel next door and Dave's penthouse right across the street. I never visited neither location but I was told other women had. I wasn't in the bedrooms so I can't say exactly what happened or speak factually as to what actually occurred, but some women received raises that had nothing to do with the reality of their job performance, their background or resume. For me, I have a brother and four boy cousins. I've always had a lot of male homies and not a lot of female friends. I've always been the homegirl. Today I can count my female friends on one hand and my male friends are probably into the hundreds. It was like that at The Source. I've been poor in my life and I've been rich. I feel comfortable dealing with everyone. The Made Men, or however you'd want to call 'Zno's homies from the Boston area, were cool to me. I could read their aura and I knew what they were dealing with. I had very little interaction with Benzino or Dave. All the other men were cool to me because they never viewed me as an object. I don't present myself that way. I really came here to work, to hustle and to show and prove what I could do. I wasn't there for "that." I think they could read that and fully supported me whereas a lot of women, I'm not saying all of them, this is not a blanket statement, but they were there to use what they had to get what they wanted. I don't know how it worked out for them, but I know that it didn't work for me. I know I spent hours putting in work and sometimes days and days without going home for very little pay, especially for someone of my level. Standard business practices were not the thing at The Source. And I've worked in hip-hop offices, at other places and I've worked at Angeles Records under Muggs and Gee Street under John Baker. Sometimes people would smoke or there would be a different atmosphere than at a "corporate" office, but it was never unprofessional, unlike The Source. This is a different animal. You're not going to be wearing a suit to work. In all I've seen, I've never seen a workplace like The Source. I could tell it was the end of an era. When I left a lot of stuff really started to crumble. They also lost their place on 215 Park. That was historic. It was buckwild. My very first day I was sitting at my desk and they had "models" auditioning, if you will, for their bikini issue. The women had to walk down our hallway down past another hallway into the restroom to change and then proceed back around the same way, wearing bikinis, most of them g-string styles. My whole first day was girls' asses in my face, literally. That was like, Welcome to The Source. Do you feel you would have been given better assignments or even promoted if you had visited the hotel? I don't know if I'm the type. I didn't receive those sort of advances at the office and a lot of women did. I don't fit the type of women, physically, that they were looking for. I'm sure women throw themselves at men in power at every company. That's something that I don't ponder or play with in my head because I never would approach a business situation in that manner. I don't feel that that's the way to get things done. All money ain't good money. If you're getting a raise or promotion like that, what's next for you? Where are you going to go from there? The choices that you make do affect your life. What was your relationship with Kim Osorio while you were at The Source? While I was at The Source, I was constantly butting heads with Kim. I met up with her later at the Feminism in Hip-Hop Conference in Chicago, which The Source was attempting to bar her from attending. When I met back up with her there, she needed this massive crew that we had put together. It was myself, Rachel Raimist, Christie Z Pabon, who is married to Popmaster Fabel and Rosa Clemente, who's down with dead.prez. There are a lot of us who consider ourselves hip-hop feminists. She needed us. She had to come to us. This was when she was filing the lawsuit. She was between a rock and a hard place. Even if she had never considered herself a feminist, she needed us. She looked at the men she had considered peers and the men around her who were paying her. She looked at how they disrespected her and threw her to the side. I had a newfound respect for Kim. When I looked at her as a person and not as a minion of 'Zno and Dave, I realized that her back was to the wall. Every time she shot down one of the story ideas that I pitched, from the b-girls to Mystic to "backpack shit" to graffiti, I don't feel now that those were her personal decisions. At the time, I did take it personal. I felt like it was back in high school where Kim was one of "those" girls and I was one of "these" girls. But unlike the high school days, we couldn't take our problems outside. I couldn't buck-50 Kim O. or Adila. This was a business. I let a lot of things go that a female with my background couldn't let go. After I got some perspective, I realized that she wasn't a bitch and wasn't trying to disrespect. I realized she wasn't one of these burnt-out industry people who were only about the dollar sign. I realized she had a lot of knowledge about hip-hop and that it wasn't her fault. She's in a position where she has a baby daughter to feed. I don't have any kids so all my decisions only affect Miranda Jane. Her shaping of the hip-hop Bible became the furthest thing from that. I don't really place the blame on her because now she'll be the scapegoat to so many people. They'll say, See what happens when you put a women in charge? She wasn't really at fault. I feel she's been vindicated since the lawsuit came out. Anyone can see from looking at the transcript of the case and how it was being brought out in front of the jury, it can be seen that she didn't have any wrongdoing and she wasn't an evil person who had the intent of destroying hip-hop. The quality had been sliding down since Carlito left and she was on the tail-end of the greatness of that magazine, which to me now seems like it is not recoverable. There are rumors that Kim had crossed the professional line with some rappers. Did you see any of that? I definitely heard about it when it came to my attention that Eminem and 50 Cent had a mixtape where they had called her "Kim O-Sorry-Ho." I had never heard the music 'til years later when Muggs played it. It made me so irate and it made me so angry. I felt so much like we had backslid into the 1930s or even when women were burned at the stake as witches in Salem, Massachusetts. It's such a double-edged sword. It's hypocritical. Dave Mays was with N'Bushe Wright, the actress. I've never been in the bedroom but I heard tales of him dating this one and that one and whether or not 'Zno was dating Lisa Raye and whether Dave had been with Kelis before Nas. That was the part that was irksome to me. Regardless of whatever she may or may have not done in her personal life, this is the industry. This is the business. It's hard to date a civilian because they don't understand the lifestyles or the hours. If I'm talking to Ghostface when he's in Miami and I'm on the West Coast and it's 1am, there's nothing wrong with that. A man may not see it that way. The trust isn't there. To me it's just so unfair. I know life isn't fair but I feel we should all be judged by the same standards. The fact that she may have been with artists isn't really the point. The point is that if you're going to call her name out and say she's unprofessional, what about the motherfuckers who own the magazine and they're trying to get with Trina or Kim or Foxy? Don't come and attack us and call us hoes unless you're willing to air your own shit out. Her sleeping with 50 Cent is the same as 'Zno sleeping with Lisa Raye or Mays with Kelis. I'm just naming names to make an example. Unless you're willing to look at both sides of the coin, I'm not really trying to hear it. What is the professional line between journalists and artists? I think it's such a blurry line. It's so hard to say because on one hand you notice the people you're working for are taking money in exchange for an editorial. It's out there. I respect magazines who call themselves "advertorial" or who make some name or mention of it, because then at least you're being honest about it. At the end of the day, it's really all about product placement. Once we get past that we can deal with the journalistic aspect of it. I do feel that I have journalistic integrity. Just because I know someone and I'm their friend, it doesn't mean that a song they do isn't wack. I'm not one to pull punches. I think that as long as you remain honest in your journalism and you're careful about your fact-checking and research, I think it's cool to be cool with somebody who's an artist and I think it's cool for an artist to be cool with a journalist. When you're the editor at a major publication, it's different. That's not the case for most publications, but for some reason in urban music, there's so much of that. People are paying for an ad and it's like the handshake goes down and you know they're going to be on the cover. We're sitting in the editorial meeting and we're talking about who should be on the cover. At the end of the day, we can have those conversations until we're blue in the face but the handshake is already done. The homie who put up the money or bought two double-page spreads and the back cover is going to be on the cover. There's so much of that going on. I've known the Hieroglyphics since '94 but I'm not going to just put them in because I know them. I couldn't put them in because I had to stories like Ashanti. How was it doing that story? It was one of the most memorable experiences of my life because whomever was meant to write that article, it was one of the male editors in the music department, had put their foot down like, I'm not going to do this. I had to drop everything and go to Miami. It was right before The Source Awards and right before the IRS had revealed all the information they had found on Murder Inc. I was in this rented mansion with the Gotti brothers and Ashanti's momager, who's a bitch and Ashanti, who's a bitch. The whole thing is just crazy. I just couldn't believe the way that I was treated by her and by her mother and by her entourage, really with the exception with Irv. He gave me some respect at first. Then we got to the studio. I'll never forget this. We're listening to music in the limo at 3am and I have to leave at 9am and I still hadn't interviewed Ashanti after sitting up with her all day and all night for three days. I'm sitting there with Irv and he looked at me and said, "Who are you? Some sort of backpack chick? Who did Kim send over to do this thing? Who do you listen to?" I said, "I don't listen to any of this new school rap and bullshit, and this shit y'all are calling R&B. I have Barry White and the Love Unlimited Orchestra in my walkman." He had this sinister laugh and was like, "Really? Love Unlimited Orchestra?" I said, "Irv, the only reason I'm sitting here is because I respect what you did back in the days with Blunt." Then he played her first single with a Love Unlimited sample and we looked at each other like, This is the game. He looked at me like he knew it was wack but he's a businessman and he's in it to make money. I finally got the interview. I got on the plane and barely had any time to write it. I was peeved at the whole process. Everyone and their mother knows you could put Mary J. Blige on the cover, she's known as the Queen of Hip-Hop and R&B. But Ashanti? Everybody knows that's not a good look. You can cover it up by showing her scantily clad and dripping wet. The men naturally will flock to it and buy the cover, but in terms of content, how much is there that you can really say? My short-lived career at The Source, which was like ten months, was like an eternity at any other company. I was very disappointed that my only cover story was on her because she's neither hip-hop nor anything that should be on the cover of The Source. Were you asked to be a part of Kim Osorio's lawsuit? At the very beginning I had approached her attorney, Kenneth Thompson. He's a pitbull and I really respect him. He won Abner Louima's case against the NYPD and the State of New York and got him a huge settlement. He asked me if I wanted to be a party to the lawsuit. I thought about it for a long time. Although I didn't experience any blatant sexual harassment, I had experienced gender discrimination. My salary was cut way down from the industry standard and I was in a position I was overqualified for. A lot of the women carried the magazine on their back because a lot of the men were in and out while we would be the workhorses in there. I really did toy with the idea, but also, something in me that comes from my background and something that comes from so many of my friends being incarcerated and having been abused by the legal system and the penal system, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around going through a lawsuit and testimony and swearing on a Bible. It's really not in my world. I decided that it wasn't the best look. There's no money to be had at the end of it and she's not going to get shit. It wasn't about that. I heard she's thinking about writing a book. I didn't want to be famous for this. I didn't want this to be attached to my name for the rest of my life. I was asked to be a part of the lawsuit and they did send me a subpoena and I said I was willing to testify on her behalf but it just wasn't in my best interests. I probably would have lost the job I have now and would have gone through financial hardship trying to get out there. What do you think of the outcome of the trial? I think a lot of truth came out in the trial and the way they did business, I think a lot of that came out like how Julie Als (the head of human resources at The Source at that time) had no background in HR and was running the HR department. Some stuff I knew and some stuff came out as actual facts in the trial shocked even me. I feel like it's just and I feel like the verdict is correct and I feel like Kim should be paid. Anytime you have the damages that go up in the millions of dollars, people say it's undeserved but no one knows what this woman had to go through. If she does get the money from these dudes, it is deserved. This also sets a precedent for standard business practices and it does speak to the treatment that women are meant to receive in any workplace with any employer. In terms of the precedent that it sets, I think it's wonderful and it couldn't be better. I'm really glad for how it turned out. Maybe the industry can open back up now. I really got out of the game after The Source. It left a bitter taste in my mouth in terms of hip-hop journalism. These jobs are few and far between and when they give jobs to women, it's often as a token. I'm against that. I'm ill at what I do. I'm a great editor and I'm an ill journalist. I'm unbeatable in my knowledge of hip-hop culture and when I go up for an interview, that's what I want someone to look at. I just hope that the way the lawsuit turned out will protect not only our hip-hop generation but my niece if she wants to get into this business or if I'm blessed to have a daughter someday and she wants to follow in my footsteps, I want her to be protected by the precedent this verdict sets. I want Kim's verdict to make things better for women in this industry. Do you see things really getting better for women? I think it's going to cut both ways because companies can also be worried about women suing. If companies think of coming out of pocket, they might think about not saying something or making a double entendre or looking at a certain picture in front of a woman. I'm hoping that it works that way. The reason why I'm really speaking to you today is because I have had people contact me from major publications and newspapers out of New York but I don't want to speak to them because I don't care what their readers think about all of this. As far as HipHopGame, a young women may be reading this and they know a little about Kim or hip-hop journalism and I want them to know that you can't be afraid. Our voices, if they go unheard, we'll disappear and not have a voice in this industry. Why is there no women's magazine for hip-hop? There's King for men. Even Honey is out of print. Why is there nothing that covers our stories in hip-hop? To me, that's the lesson. We had to go through this and I don't think it's going to be better for us, but for our next generation, I genuinely hope so. You went to Angeles Records after The Source. From my experiences in dealing with everyone over there, they all seem like quality people. What was your experience like over there? 'Nuff respect all the time. Those guys are really upstanding individuals. They're really brilliant artistically and they're really on point with their business. I was Chace's intern at a time when he was an executive at Priority Records. He is an OG in this industry and the knowledge that he has is unparalleled and for him to turn around and be one of the dopest MC's is mind-boggling. I've seen Muggs around but I never realized until I got to Angeles how great his work ethic is and how great he is at multi-tasking. He could be making a beat one minute and an executive decision the next. He could act like a superstar if he wanted to, but he never did. He's a rock star in hip-hop. Cypress Hill stands up there with Led Zeppelin, Bob Marley and Jimi Hendrix as far as I'm concerned. It was really incredible to see him work. When Self-Scientific released their first album, I was their director of publicity and we did some great things back then. They really gave me an opportunity and I'll never forget that. There are very few women who can say they were the general manager of a record label. For Chace to allow me to hold that position, even though it was short-lived, he really gave me a pass with that. Now on my resume I am an executive. To have that experience and knowledge and to be around Chace, Muggs and Khalil every day, that was a great experience and I wish them the best. I hope other independents can gain distribution through Fontana and other distributors because it's really important for the future of hip-hop and the future of this music. Angeles was really, for me, one of the greatest work experiences that I had. It was also one of the hardest because we didn't really have a staff and I was doing so much hands-on. I was the go-between along with Chace in interactions with the distributor. It was a great learning experience and I could never have another experience like that in my life. You've seen a lot of different sides of hip-hop. In your opinion, do women have to work harder than men to get their props? I truly believe that women are the unsung heroes of this business. It goes back to Sylvia Robinson when she started Sugarhill Records. People talk about the group that she put together and how they stole their rhymes from the great Grandmaster Caz. All that to the side, that's a lot of jibber-jabber, remember that she put together the first hip-hop label and it sold. Then she turned around and put out Melle Mel and "The Message." People don't think about the fact that when DJ Kool Herc DJ'd his first party, it was because it was his sister's birthday and she wanted him to DJ and she rented the venue. People don't think about stuff like that. Mona Lisa Murray was at Loud when it was a desk and a chair. People wouldn't know anything about Wu-Tang Clan or Xzibit without her. Big Ro as put in a lot of work as a radio promoter, which is the most grimy, gully, hardcore side of the industry you could imagine. Monica Lynch is the original female executive at Tommy Boy. Their stories are basically untold, as is mine. I'm lucky as a journalist that I've had a byline, but in this industry, I haven't been given my props for what I've done. One thing I know is that's going to change because we're needed. We're needed as consumers in this industry. We're needed as a backbone in this industry. Even if it's just as a hip-hop wife, we're very, very necessary as far as our functions within the universe and the hip-hop industry. I've never gotten my props, but I will take them. Do you see yourself getting back into the journalism side of hip-hop? I started my own website, Pyramids 2 Projects. I got tired of it. Even now editors call me telling me their reviewer fell through and they need me to write a review for free. I've just decided that I'm going to make my own name and write about whatever I want to write about. I've been pigeonholed so much because I've only written for urban magazines. I've noticed that a lot of editors are very unresponsive to looking at what I've done even though I've covered politics. The Source is such a red light to employers. They don't want to see that. It's really difficult to get back in. My focus now is working on projects with a larger scope. I'm blessed to be working on an autobiography with Tragedy Khadafi. Trag is another unsung hero of hip-hop. He's brought out a lot of artists and he's never been given his just due. My next thing is to get a couple of book projects rolling. Magazines have a very short life-span and I'm concerned that people aren't reading. That's my goal for '07 is to get something going in the book arena. What advice do you have for young women who want to get into the hip-hop industry? To start, go to school because I didn't and that's been constantly used against me and prevented me from taking the next step forward. Go to school and study whatever aspects of music you're interested in. NYU has some great music business programs. If you're in high school, give it a shot. If you want to be a journalist, interview someone. Buy a record and review it. You can get a blog. You can start a magazine by photocopying it. When you get older and if this is something you want to get into, definitely try an internship at an independent record label or try to get into a major. You usually have to be enrolled in college to do that. Always be creative and always be thinking about the next thing. Always have a Plan B and don't let anybody change your goals. As a young woman, you have to be really, really strong. Maintain your body and keep your respect. If I could change anything about myself I would not lose my virginity at a young age. Always put your career first and it's a lot easier to do that if you're not focusing on someone you're dating or a fiancée. It's much easier that way and it's probably easier said than done. Those are some of the key things I have to say for young girls. If anyone has any questions for me, you can email me. What do you want to say to everybody? I really want to give a lot of respect to HipHopGame because you really profile a lot of artists that no one else does and I really applaud that, especially right now when there are so many websites that started out covering good, underground music and then they realized they could make more money doing major artists. I appreciate that. I really want to shout out all my homeboys and homegirls everywhere, from LA to Queensbridge. Keep hip-hop alive because this is our culture and it's more than something to be bought and sold. Love your culture and live and breathe with all your heart. lasangelitas@gmail.com www.myspace.com/mizmirandajane http://pyramids2projects.blogspot.com http://www.rachelraimist.com/women_hh_resources.html Photo 1 - Left to Right - Christie Z Pabon (Tools of War owner and wife of Popmaster Fabel), DJ/cratedigger Ms. Shing-A-Ling (from Japan), Miz Miranda Jane (Journalista/Editrix/A&R), Pri the Honey Dark (MC, Producer, member of the Anomolies and Hip Hop Mom), and DJ Kuttin Kandi (5th Platoon, Anomolies). Chillin' at RockSteady Anniversary NYC Photo 2 - HIP HOP'S GOT MY BACK...TATTOO BY BLEN ONE TDS FOR ALLSTAR TATTOO, CEIBA, PUERTO RICO Photo 3 - Miranda Jane with Monalisa Murray @ Xzibit/Tony Hawk cover shoot for Complex Magazine...photo by Jonathan Mannion Photo 4 - Miranda Jane, Los Angeles MTA, photo by Miranda Jane

By Brian Kayser

[321] REACT TO THIS INTERVIEW